<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1342</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/12/99 11:04:38 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
Sender:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Reply-to:	traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
To:	traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest     Friday, November 12 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1342<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
Re: Leonidae sector<BR>
Still looking for . . .<BR>
RE: Cultures<BR>
Re: Looking for . . . .<BR>
Re: Re Tourism in the Marches<BR>
Re: Starlost (was Cultures)<BR>
Re: Cultures<BR>
Re: The Republic Question<BR>
Out-of-print Traveller Stuff<BR>
Re: Out-of-print Traveller Stuff<BR>
Re: Veterans organizations (was: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......)<BR>
Re: The Republic Question<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Starlost<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
RE: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:43:53 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/12/99 5:21:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< You chain your legs (long chain) to a fixed spot on the floor, <BR>
 jump on the marching grav tank from a grav vehicle, and chain your <BR>
 arms to the tank... <grin><BR>
 Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
YUCH!!!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:50:00 -0500<BR>
From: "Jory Earl" <j-man@iname.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
<BR>
>I've heard people mention a ringworld in traveller several times but I<BR>
>have never seen anything in canon. Can someone tell me where it is<BR>
>located and if it's canon?<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
I put one in the Sword Worlds subsector but that doesn't make it canon..:)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
 J-Man<BR>
 ICQ# 2843475<BR>
 New Hampshire - U.S.A.<BR>
 Email : j-man@iname.com<BR>
 Home Page : http://www.geocities.com/~jman037/<BR>
___________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:51:01 -0600 (CST)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Leonidae sector<BR>
<BR>
Andy Akins wrote:<BR>
<BR>
[subsector names for Leonidae A-E, I, M deleted]<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone know of the source of the above names, i.e. are they canon? Does<BR>
> anyone have any info on Leonidae? Is L:eonidae show in the Atlas of the<BR>
> Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
The source is the outer edge of the subsector maps for the Hinterworlds from<BR>
Challenge for A-E-I-M.  I've never seen B-C-D listed anywhere; that would be<BR>
Crucis Margin.  I don't think Leonidae was inside Atlas coverage.<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:17:13 -0500<BR>
From: dennis.f.belanger@bellatlantic.com<BR>
Subject: Still looking for . . .<BR>
<BR>
Hello All,<BR>
<BR>
     I checked out the ebay sites recomeded. Yes, there is SMC book up for<BR>
auction. Unfortunately I cannot justify bidding over $51 for it. Can anyone<BR>
quell my sorrow by telling me it's a supplement not worth having?<BR>
<BR>
     Oh yes. One other thing. Is there a T5 site up and running yet?<BR>
<BR>
Thank you,<BR>
<BR>
Dennis<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 07:52:36<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Cultures<BR>
<BR>
SPOILERS for the most recent season of Red Dwarf (8, I think.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 11:43 AM 11/12/1999 -0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Was Earthship Ark armed?  The Red  Dwarf  may  have  been  armed,<BR>
>certainly one of its ship's boats (Star Bug) *was*  armed.  Also,<BR>
>the Red Dwarf was rebuilt practicly from scratch  by  nanites  in<BR>
>the last season ... they could repair battle/collision damage.  I<BR>
>think the winner would be Red Dwarf (unless the crew cock it up!)<BR>
<BR>
Not only did the nanites rebuild the ship, they rebuilt the entire *crew*<BR>
as well.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:03:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for . . . .<BR>
<BR>
At 08:05 AM 11/12/1999 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>there is 3 for sale at ebay right now here is the links:<BR>
<BR>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=194780787<BR>
<BR>
$51 is a ridiculous price to pay for what was a mediocre supplement.  Hunt<BR>
in your FLGS' used box.<BR>
<BR>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=196234474<BR>
><BR>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=195586194<BR>
<BR>
Unless you are an actual collector, Supplement 3 isn't overly useful.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 08:11:32<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Re Tourism in the Marches<BR>
<BR>
At 01:00 AM 11/11/1999 -0900, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>For beauty, there's Psaydi, or (umm, drawing a blank, the planet with the<BR>
>skymelon vinyards in TTA). Regina has the Old Capitol, plus lots of<BR>
>academic and educational resources (IMTU, U of Regina, Regni is one of the<BR>
>largest, best equipped research facilities in the marches), plus all the<BR>
>attractions of a major trade center. Regina is also still the Cultural<BR>
>Capitol of the Marches IMTU, so Regina is a good bet.<BR>
<BR>
Pysadi/Aramis?  Tainted atmosphere and a religious dictatorship is goping<BR>
to discourage most travelers.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, magnetic sail racing arounf Regina's gas giant is a very popular<BR>
sport, which draws touristr from around the region.<BR>
<BR>
>Mora has the new capitol, the sector Duchess, and constant noble tourism...<BR>
>the social circut on Mora starts on 002 and ends on 355... Commoners tend<BR>
>to avoid it. Mora University is also a major bit. Depot/Spinward Marches is<BR>
>known for displays on military history, plus the sector's Imperial Naval<BR>
>Acadamy, with it's parades, airshows, and other pomp.<BR>
<BR>
<noble fop><BR>
"002 to 355?  My dear boy, that's all just preperation for New Year's and<BR>
Holiday!  *The* social event of the season.  Everybody who is anybody<BR>
attends the Matriarch's Grand Ball, parties until dawn!"<BR>
</noble fop><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:12:36 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Starlost (was Cultures)<BR>
<BR>
Richard Hough wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Probably the most interesting tidbit there is the fact that Ben Bova<BR>
> was the "technical consultant" for the series. He wrote a description<BR>
> of the engines, shuttles, reactor and life systems. All of which were<BR>
> ignored.<BR>
> <BR>
> Bova's revenge was to write a sarcastic novel called "The<BR>
> Starcrossed", the promo for which includes: "... there is 3D TV,<BR>
> offering the illusion of almost-live entertainment in the home.   All<BR>
> it needs is a smashing new series to bring it to the heart of the<BR>
> American people and get Titanic Productions off the brink of<BR>
> financial disaster.... That's where The Starcrossed comes in, with<BR>
> its own surprises."<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
So THAT'S where 'The Starcrossed' came from !!! I'm going to have to go<BR>
dig it out and re-read it...I don't believe I've ever seen the TV<BR>
series, though parts of it sound familiar. Also, IIRC, as Doug Trumbull<BR>
was involved with it, weren't some of the 'Silent Running' models used<BR>
in it? I'm pretty sure I remember seeing one of the domes at a con a<BR>
long LONG time ago (DesertCon here in Tucson, mid 70's), and there was<BR>
some sort of notation like that on the info that came with it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:23:07 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultures<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >If Earthship Ark and Red Dwarf had a fight, who would win?  :)<BR>
> <BR>
> We all would, assuming they mutually destroyed one another.<BR>
> <BR>
> <ducking><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Gazpacho<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:27:18 -0800<BR>
From: Richard Hough <corvus@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Republic Question<BR>
<BR>
>I don't think canon addresses the issue, but I've<BR>
>always assumed that once you've joined the Imperium,<BR>
>you can't leave -- and once the Imperium decides it<BR>
>wants you, all you can do is cut the best deal you<BR>
>can.<BR>
<BR>
How about states can join or leave the Imperium by majority vote of <BR>
citizens of the polity in question? That is, by a majority of the <BR>
citizens of the separate state to join, and by a majority of the <BR>
citizens of the *entire Imperium* to leave.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
IMTU t4+ ru ge+ !3i(3i++) jt-- au+ ls- <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:31:52 -0600<BR>
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com><BR>
Subject: Out-of-print Traveller Stuff<BR>
<BR>
Are you worried about canon law?<BR>
Do you prefer to run with the herd?<BR>
Are you missing critical out-of-print Traveller materials?<BR>
<BR>
Looks like it's as good a time as any to suggest that some of<BR>
us could go on a Xerox-happy copying spree and distribute<BR>
hard-to-find material for free to folks on the TML who aren't<BR>
as fortunate.  If it falls under the Marc Miller "authorized copy"<BR>
rule, then it's a candidate.  There's really no reason folks on<BR>
the TML should be hobbled by lack of materials, after all...<BR>
<BR>
What do you-all think?  Shall we collate orders and do batch<BR>
copy-and-mail jobs?<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:34:00 -0500<BR>
From: Juliean Galak <jg42@cornell.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Out-of-print Traveller Stuff<BR>
<BR>
At 10:31 AM 11/12/99 -0600, you wrote:<BR>
>Are you worried about canon law?<BR>
>Do you prefer to run with the herd?<BR>
>Are you missing critical out-of-print Traveller materials?<BR>
><BR>
>Looks like it's as good a time as any to suggest that some of<BR>
>us could go on a Xerox-happy copying spree and distribute<BR>
>hard-to-find material for free to folks on the TML who aren't<BR>
>as fortunate.  If it falls under the Marc Miller "authorized copy"<BR>
>rule, then it's a candidate.  There's really no reason folks on<BR>
>the TML should be hobbled by lack of materials, after all...<BR>
><BR>
>What do you-all think?  Shall we collate orders and do batch<BR>
>copy-and-mail jobs?<BR>
<BR>
I own a bunch of CT (and, unfortunately, T4) stuff, (although not anything <BR>
particularly rare...) and my own copy machine.  I would be glad to trade <BR>
photocopies with people if they are interested.  I'd also willingly pay <BR>
costs for some of the items I'm missing (Secret of the Ancients adventure, <BR>
for example).<BR>
<BR>
           -- Juliean Galak (a.k.a. Falcon)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
jg42@cornell.edu        "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will<BR>
                          defend to the death your right to say it."<BR>
                                              -- Francois Marie Voltaire<BR>
#include <disclaimer.h> "Imagination is more important than knowledge"<BR>
                          			     -- Albert Einstein<BR>
for PGP public-key and<BR>
more quotes, http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/plan.htm<BR>
WWW Page: http://gerfalcon.tzo.com/                <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:37:45 -0500<BR>
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Veterans organizations (was: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......)<BR>
<BR>
At 11:38 PM 11/11/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>--- Sethkimmel@aol.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>I see some interesting conflict between some of these groups...<BR>
<BR>
<Groups Snipped><BR>
<BR>
>Group A, seeing themselves as the representatives of the groups<BR>
>in question might just think of Group B as being 'elitest' or<BR>
>even 'racist'. There could be some very interesting interaction<BR>
>and even direct and covert conflict (of the physical variety).<BR>
<BR>
Must make for some interesting soccer games...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
<BR>
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
    may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
      ~Stephen Decatur<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:41:48 -0400<BR>
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: The Republic Question<BR>
<BR>
At 09:27 AM 11/12/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>>I don't think canon addresses the issue, but I've<BR>
>>always assumed that once you've joined the Imperium,<BR>
>>you can't leave -- and once the Imperium decides it<BR>
>>wants you, all you can do is cut the best deal you<BR>
>>can.<BR>
><BR>
>How about states can join or leave the Imperium by majority vote of <BR>
>citizens of the polity in question? That is, by a majority of the <BR>
>citizens of the separate state to join, and by a majority of the <BR>
>citizens of the *entire Imperium* to leave.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Sorry, that's rediculous.  You can't hardly get 1100 people to vote<BR>
a majority on anything, let alone 11000 *worlds*.  It sounds like a good<BR>
example of the Red Tape Monstrousity.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	    NET-City Communications....<BR>
	         Providing "Solutions for the Common Company"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:43:03 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >  The man had his own private army & thought that <BR>
> >the Emperor should take back the reins of government and rearm the <BR>
> >nation.<BR>
>  <BR>
> The aim of the Private army was to die for, not to kill for, the <BR>
> emperor. That was the basic spirit I was referring to, not their <BR>
> political objectives.<BR>
> <BR>
Yes, but they weren't hoping just to die for the Emperor just to do it--<BR>
they had other goals they hoped to accomplish.  Bushi don't throw<BR>
themselves in front of the enemy hoping to die for the Emperor just<BR>
because, there's usually some other reason.<BR>
<BR>
> > His own suicide was an act he had been rehearsing his entire adult <BR>
> > life.<BR>
> >  Perhaps as an atonement for failing the physical to become a Devine <BR>
> > Wind pilot during the Great Pacific War.<BR>
> <BR>
> You or me got something wrong with the japanese mindset. AFAIK, being <BR>
> able to plot his suicide for such a long time is a *far* more <BR>
> important achievement than passing a physical test. In fact, <BR>
> Insurance companies bet that you can't plot it for more tha one or <BR>
> two years.<BR>
> <BR>
He didn't get to serve his Emperor and country in their time of greatest<BR>
need.  The test itself was not the issue.<BR>
<BR>
> > Remember that Mishima used his sword on several unarmed soldiers prior to <BR>
> > his suicide. He certainly was willing to fight & kill others.  His own <BR>
> > suicide was an act of grand theatre.<BR>
> <BR>
> The above is IMTU, and, as I said, *partly* based on Mishima. YMMV. <BR>
> As for a suicide being theatre, I won't comment on this. I am sure <BR>
> you realized what you said right after sending it. He *died.*<BR>
><BR>
that doesn't mean it's not theater, where does the word "tragedy" come<BR>
from?  It was a symbolic act and a manipulative act.  Seppuku, and the<BR>
threat of seppuku, often were.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 09:45:18 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 12 Nov 1999, Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > I was sort of waiting for someone to mention this.  I never thought of<BR>
> > Mishima Yukio-sensei as a pacifist.<BR>
>  <BR>
> > Carlos, where did you get this idea?<BR>
> <BR>
> IMHO, the courage to actively kill oneself (and Mishima is <BR>
> the greatest exponent of this, all times, all places, full stop) plus <BR>
> the idea of "willing to die for" just claimed to be coupled with <BR>
> pacifism. As I said, the "Mishimans" IMTU were *partly* based in the <BR>
> spirit of Mishima-sama. Never said *he* was a pacifist, specially in <BR>
> the modern, western-derived sense of the term. ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
Not being a pacifist myself (ha! right!) I can only say that it seems<BR>
really strange to me.  I would think that pacifists aren't supposed to<BR>
kill, and that that would include themselves.  This kind of supports my<BR>
theory that the sort of pacifist who will allow anything to be done to<BR>
them or their loved ones rather than fight has a secret death wish.<BR>
<BR>
Mishima-sensei... would probably be rolling over in his grave, but hey...<BR>
it's just a game!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:33:49 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
><BR>
>Wireless control on a battlefield is *not* a good idea. And it's not as<BR>
>if using wires to connect the modules to the ARV is going to be *that*<BR>
>much of a pain.<BR>
<BR>
I've been working on a "dedicated" recovery-only vehicle (no repair shops of <BR>
any kind carried). It has a crew of two (sealed, with NBC protection) and a <BR>
4mm VRFGG for emergency use. It can lift a 200 ton vehicle (most heavy grav <BR>
tanks) and travels at around 200 mph loaded (counting drag from the carried <BR>
vehicle). It has 100 cf of dedicated cargo space; to keep the recovery <BR>
vehicle from being totally overloaded, around 1600 cf of "empty" space was <BR>
added; when not in use as a recovery vehicle, it could serve as a heavy-lift <BR>
cargo carrier with a useful amount of internal space. Total cost is around <BR>
MCr 1.<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:38:42 PST<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
>From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
>   Self-powered how? Individual fusion units? If so, they'll be more costly<BR>
>than a central unit with scale efficiencies.<BR>
<BR>
Probably a rechargable power cell good for about 1 hour.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>   What's the attachment method to the target AFV hull?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
There would probably be "built-in" hull attachment points on the AFV (slots, <BR>
hooks, etc.). These would be considered to be part of the hull structure and <BR>
thus no extra cost or weight.<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 13:45:39 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Not being a pacifist myself (ha! right!) I can only say that it seems<BR>
>really strange to me.  I would think that pacifists aren't supposed to<BR>
>kill, and that that would include themselves.  This kind of supports my<BR>
>theory that the sort of pacifist who will allow anything to be done to<BR>
>them or their loved ones rather than fight has a secret death wish.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Maybe, maybe not. A death wish might not really be all that secret. After<BR>
all, it might not be frowned upon the way it has come to be in most parts of<BR>
the modern world. After all, Vietnamese Buddhists have a long history of<BR>
suicide when they have difficulty rectifying their religious beliefs with<BR>
the secular governments of Vietnam. This is an honorable thing to do in that<BR>
culture.<BR>
<BR>
The Buddhist traditions in Vietnam were pacifists, in a very real sense.<BR>
They had worked, in various ways, to end the war between North and South<BR>
Vietnam. With the public self-immolation of Nhat Chi Mai such a death also<BR>
became a form of protest that was able to galvanize the population. One of<BR>
the most memorable images from the photographic history of the Vietnam War<BR>
is that of Quang Duc, who could no longer reconcile his religious beliefs<BR>
with the South Vietnamese Diem regime. It set a precedent that a person<BR>
could do more in dying, publically and within set traditions, than that<BR>
person could do in life. Quang Duc's self-immolation wasn't the last, there<BR>
have been a number since then. Nguyen Van Kinh's suicide in 1998 was the<BR>
most recent, and it, too served to sway the opinion of the people and served<BR>
to bring about a change in the government.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, I don't think that the way we know pacifism in modernity<BR>
is the only way that the concept could evolve. Pacifist movements in the<BR>
real world are based around an ideal of pacifism. It is entirely possible<BR>
that a utilitarian form of pacifism could develop. After all, the death<BR>
penalty - as successful or unsuccessful as it may be in different places -<BR>
is an attempt to reduce the amount of killing in a society through killing.<BR>
It is "peace through war" in microcosm.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 22:29:14 -0500<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 1999 11:42:09 PST<BR>
> From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
> <BR>
> I've done some work on a larger, military version (GTL 10, 200 ton lift,<BR>
> enclosed two-man crew). It is actually cheaper than the 48-ton grav lifter<BR>
> (which is GTL 8). However, it has a very poor Health (6), even with the<BR>
> heaviest frame available (I may just have to add a large amount of empty<BR>
> space to make the body more robust).<BR>
> <BR>
> A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
> <BR>
> Brandon Cope<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	Back to your original post, In the CT/MT sense there is only one "Grav"<BR>
module (as opposed to Contragrav and thrusters). Loosing that means no<BR>
more flying, and usually crashing. In this circumstance either the Grav<BR>
module can be repaired and the vehicle flies itself out or it too badly<BR>
damaged and need to be lifted. <BR>
	In combat, the third possibility is a crew kill, where the vehicle is<BR>
largely undamaged but the crew has been killed. Recovery requires only<BR>
replacing the crew. <BR>
	Your second option, attaching the Grav pods to a partly or fully<BR>
disabled grav vehicle seems like it won't work. If I were to design a<BR>
grav vehicle, particularly a combat vehicle, the Grav modules are the<BR>
weak point (like the tracks on a tank) and I would make sure they were<BR>
well protected. Anything capable of damaging the Grav module would<BR>
probably also have done significant damage to the remainder of the<BR>
vehicle. While you could build the vehicle with thrust attachment<BR>
points, usually you would either use the (replaced) grav modules or have<BR>
a wrap around lift vehicle. <BR>
	This may easily degenerate into the "Landing unstreamlined ships" flame<BR>
war again, which I don't want. <BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
	Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
	tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 10:52:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Starlost<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 10:10:52 -0800<BR>
> From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
> <BR>
> Via electronic medium on 11/11/99 5:59 AM, ian@vax2.concordia.ca wrote:<BR>
> > Does that mean that we are going to need hydroponics<BR>
> > for the power plant?<BR>
> <BR>
> One thought: Bulkheads. When one *really* must take a dump. <gd&r><BR>
<BR>
Ouch.<BR>
<BR>
On a nice turnaround from Ian's comments, one of the Venus Equilateral<BR>
stories by George O. Smith (great golden-age stuff, btw) featured an<BR>
officious, clueless, aggressively pointy-haired administrator who is put<BR>
in command of a crewed deep-space data relay station.  He proceeds to<BR>
impose his solutions on all kinds of technical problems, creating an<BR>
escalating wave of crises as systems which were working just fine get<BR>
'fixed'.  The story climaxes with his stomping into the station life<BR>
support chief's office, demanding to know why the 'Air Plant' room was<BR>
overgrown with filthy weeds, and where the actual air machinery had<BR>
disappeared to.  With dawning horror, the life support chief realizes that<BR>
the administrator, in a fit of picque at the unacceptable mess, has rooted<BR>
up and burned all the "weeds".  Definitely a Dilbert Moment, half a<BR>
century ahead of its time...and not a half bad idea for a Trav scenario. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net<BR>
 --*--  http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html<BR>
   |   "They do not preach that their God will rouse them<BR>
      a little before the nuts work loose." - Kipling<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 11:01:22 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
Thom Jones-Low writes:<BR>
>      Your second option, attaching the Grav pods to a partly or fully<BR>
> disabled grav vehicle seems like it won't work. If I were to design a<BR>
> grav vehicle, particularly a combat vehicle, the Grav modules are the<BR>
> weak point (like the tracks on a tank) and I would make sure they were<BR>
> well protected. Anything capable of damaging the Grav module would<BR>
> probably also have done significant damage to the remainder of the<BR>
> vehicle. While you could build the vehicle with thrust attachment<BR>
> points, usually you would either use the (replaced) grav modules or have<BR>
> a wrap around lift vehicle. <BR>
<BR>
Given that in GT, most vehicles have at least two separate contragravity systems, any of which can lift the entire vehicle, grav pods are almost a nonissue; if its so disabled that all its contragravity systems are gone, its probably falling apart and requires more assistance than a grav pod can offer.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 18:58:47 -0000<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
Robert Eaglestone wrote:<BR>
> Suppose you want to give your players the creeps?  Send<BR>
> shivers up their spine?  Worry the PCs to no end?<BR>
<BR>
Spacejens wrote:<BR>
> First of all, consider the room you play in. Use it to your<BR>
> advantage. In other words, if the light suddenly goes out in<BR>
> the scenario, do the same in the room. It helps if you can get<BR>
> close to the light switch without the players realizing what<BR>
> you are about to do. See below.<BR>
<BR>
Lighting can be effective but don't neglect  other  environmental<BR>
factors of your playing area  (such  as  temperature  or  ambient<BR>
sound).  I once ran a horror adventure as part  of  a  non-horror<BR>
campaign that worked well:  It was based on  "Treasure  Ships  of<BR>
The Abyss" from Challenge magazine.  The players were the crew of<BR>
an IN Gazelle close escort during the 5FW and  during  a  misjump<BR>
they 'encountered' a Type-M subsidised liner that was trapped  in<BR>
jumpspace.  A  linkway  existed  between  the  Gazelle's  forward<BR>
avionics bay and the Type-M's engine room.<BR>
<BR>
Of course one PC goes across to the other  ship  to  explore  and<BR>
becomes trapped when the linkway is lost.  Now the main  room  we<BR>
were playing in was warm and well lit, but at this stage I  asked<BR>
the adventureous player to wait in the spare bedroom  (which  was<BR>
less well lit and  a  few  degrees  *cooler*  than  comfortable).<BR>
Also, I use sound FX tapes for ambient sounds  ...  a  continuous<BR>
loop of starship engine hum plays quietly and reassuringly in the<BR>
main room, while the spare  bedroom  is  deathly  quiet.  I  then<BR>
continued for 30 minuets with the main group before  joining  the<BR>
lone player.  The PC explored the ghost ship  ...  cue  'temporal<BR>
echos' of the long dead crew and passengers, and  other  'spooky'<BR>
stuff.  Once the player had become 'used' to this I switched  the<BR>
tables on him by having a small funneral procession interact with<BR>
him and pursue him menacingly about  the  ship!  (Total  duration<BR>
about an hour.)<BR>
<BR>
Eventually the linkway was restored and the PC rejoined the  main<BR>
party ... and the player reentered the main game room:  his  face<BR>
ashen!  Since then, whereever funnerals are mentioned in-game the<BR>
player goes pale (and I mean player, not PC).  Most gratifying!<BR>
<BR>
That's the other point: there's safty in numbers ...  so  if  you<BR>
want to creep somone out  isolate  them  from  the  rest  of  the<BR>
players first and do it one-on-one.<BR>
<BR>
With the X-files, apart from the conspiracy stuff,  most  of  the<BR>
shows recycle old material.  The show's success here  is  due  to<BR>
high production values: to run a creepy gaming  session  remember<BR>
style and atmosphere ... but also moderation (I've not been  able<BR>
to reproduce the above effect because my players are wise to this<BR>
now).<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"Rome wasn't burned in a day."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1342<BR>
***********************************<BR>
<BR>
To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR>
<BR>
unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR>
<BR>
in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.imagiconline.com".<BR>
If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>
coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>
address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>
"local-traveller":<BR>
<BR>
subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR>
<BR>
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>
in the commands above with "traveller".<BR>
<BR>
Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR>
</XMP></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0f0f0f" BACK="#fffffe" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
<BR>
----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>
Return-Path: <owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Received: from  rly-za03.mx.aol.com (rly-za03.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.99]) by air-za02.mail.aol.com (v62.15) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:04:38 -0500<BR>
Received: from  lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-za03.mx.aol.com (v63.6) with ESMTP; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:04:14 -0500<BR>
Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id OAA23878;<BR>
	Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:03:48 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:03:30 -0500<BR>
Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>
	by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id OAA23780<BR>
	for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:03:29 -0500 (EST)<BR>
	(envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com)<BR>
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 1999 14:03:29 -0500 (EST)<BR>
Message-Id: <199911121903.OAA23780@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
To: traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #1342<BR>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
<BR>
</HTML>
